hello I'm Brett Lawson you're watching
00:06
the finding moment for creating the
00:07
culture of conscience our guest today is
00:09
guy Oakland Nietzsche guy okhla is a
00:11
traditional healer of the Blackfeet
00:13
tribe and a member of the Executive
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Council for the Native American
00:17
leadership Alliance guy okhla was born
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in the mountains of Montana and raised
00:23
in Arizona this is guy okhla second
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appearance on our program guy Oakland
00:28
Ichi welcome back to the defining moment
00:30
I appreciate you being our guest today
00:32
thank you very much it's good to be here
00:35
it's great having you here thanks for
00:36
coming our topic today is Native
00:39
American spirituality you have many
00:42
testimonies of your experiences with the
00:44
spiritual world so I was hoping we could
00:46
start by having you share some of your
00:48
most dramatic spiritual experiences and
00:51
where you overcame really
00:53
life-threatening situations which
00:55
threatened your well-being you had an
00:57
experience a number of years ago when
00:59
you confronted an evil medicine man
01:01
through confronting him you essentially
01:04
had to risk your life by engaging in
01:06
spiritual warfare please tell us about
01:08
how you overcame that kind of situation
01:12
this particular situation I begin to set
01:16
different prayers that one of the
01:18
reservations I'm not going to say what
01:22
reservation or what state but it was not
01:28
a very good situation there was a lot of
01:32
young kids that were disappearing and it
01:37
was on my eighth day of fasting was only
01:42
fasting with water and I began to set up
01:46
the prayer and the spirit of this person
01:49
came
01:51
it's very difficult to explain if people
01:54
are not accustomed to spiritual
01:57
experiences still how I know it was him
02:02
or it's a very different situation as I
02:07
began my prayers I began to clean the
02:14
spiritual atmosphere of that place and
02:18
there are different things that comes
02:19
into you why is it this way because
02:25
first there is a cloud of darkness that
02:29
comes over you and this cloth of
02:33
darkness begins to numb your spiritual
02:36
sensitivities that's why you always have
02:40
to do certain conditions and you always
02:42
have to be on your guard making sure
02:45
that the communication that you're
02:48
receiving is from the higher arms of the
02:50
spirit world a lot of the spirits they
02:54
come over and they look nice they appear
02:59
to be nice but they're deceiving spirits
03:02
so you always have to watch out for this
03:04
kind of spirit world also as I begin
03:10
more into the prayers for a few days
03:14
then I was beginning to feel like I was
03:18
being choked but not Joe you know where
03:22
somebody comes over and puts their hip
03:24
their hands on you but I was beginning
03:27
to feel like a rope who was being around
03:31
on my neck and it was very difficult to
03:34
breathe it was I could feel the blood
03:39
going from my heart to my brain it was
03:43
kind of very difficult to go through but
03:47
also my head it was beginning to
03:51
I could feel that it was like spending
03:54
swelling swelling I went through a few
03:58
days like that and I decided I say why
04:04
never been to a hospital I never go to
04:06
it the city doctors where I wanted to
04:11
know is this thing a physical thing so I
04:15
went to have a checkup and I was in the
04:20
hospital for for a few days and now I
04:24
was at the point where I was just saying
04:27
my last prayers and I said you know
04:31
creator I have been in this world for so
04:36
much so long you know it's a short time
04:39
in my life on this on this world if if
04:43
if I'm out to go into the other side and
04:46
meet with you please forgive me for the
04:52
times that I was sure coming to other
04:55
people when I insulted other people when
04:57
I was miserable and mean and nasty to
05:00
other people and I was in the mix of
05:04
this prayers when right through the
05:07
ceiling two people came down it was
05:12
spiritually spiritually it was father
05:15
moon and his wife your heard to Reverend
05:18
Samuel smear every time he and morning
05:20
his wife and they came right through the
05:23
ceiling and he began to assign different
05:27
other spiritual people as to what to do
05:30
as I was saying my last prayers I
05:33
thought okay this is my time to go from
05:39
my right hand his wife came over and
05:44
grabbed her hand and my hand and then
05:47
she put her hand on top of my hand this
05:50
way and he came over and put his right
05:56
hand
05:57
on top of my forehead and I saw this
06:01
light that came from over him right
06:07
through him all over my body all the
06:12
pain was gone and from that point on I
06:16
didn't feel any more pain so I knew very
06:21
well then this has got to be the
06:25
spiritual manifestation I was checked
06:29
out from the hospital I went home and I
06:33
begin to set up different prayers and as
06:39
I was setting up different prayers I
06:41
thought ah that night I had a dream and
06:43
this dream that this medicine man was in
06:47
front of me we had a fire going and in
06:51
this between this fire I reached out
06:55
with my hand like this and he came and
06:57
he reach out his medicine stick with his
07:00
medicine bag mmm and he gave me his
07:04
medicine stick and his bag and I grabbed
07:08
them and I looked at him and I told him
07:10
from this point on you have no more
07:14
powers and I put it down and I say now
07:19
your powers belong to me
07:22
that went on and at the reservation
07:27
everything was beginning to change I
07:30
went back and different changed for the
07:35
better
07:35
the change for the better I never sold
07:38
the medicine man anywhere hmm but that
07:43
was one of the experiences that I had I
07:47
have many many experiences concerning
07:51
the physical world the spiritual world
07:52
mmm and that was one where your felt
07:56
your own your own life was in danger
07:58
that's what I feel that I thought I
07:59
really thought that was going to passed
08:01
on very interesting I think for many of
08:04
our viewers you know you're sharing and
08:07
the topics you're sharing about seem
08:09
unusual you
08:10
know that that you're so present so
08:13
aware of the spiritual reality I think
08:17
the at you know the average average
08:19
people aren't so aware of that so it's
08:22
very interesting what you're saying now
08:24
you had another experience back in 1972
08:27
when you're a soldier in the United
08:29
States Army and at that point you had a
08:33
confrontation with Satan please recount
08:36
for us what happened back in 1972 I was
08:40
in the military I was in Fort Jackson
08:42
South Carolina and it must have been
08:46
when the sign is going down about 6:00
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6:30 p.m. I was coming out from the mess
08:54
hall now I was on my greens so I walked
08:59
into the barracks and turned left and
09:02
all the beds were lined up so I went out
09:06
and I took my shirt off and I put it on
09:09
my full locker and I leaned on my bed
09:13
and put my hands back behind my back
09:16
button behind my neck and straight up
09:20
and straight up there was an office on
09:22
the left side and there was an office on
09:24
the right side between the two offices
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it was a hallway on the part of the
09:30
right hand side on my right-hand side
09:33
but were the switches for the light and
09:36
I noticed that I could see a hand that
09:38
was sliding over and went over and shut
09:40
the lights off and then he began walking
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was a charming white person dressed in
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civilian clothes he was a handsome man
09:55
kind of looking like writer more now was
09:59
this a physical person or a spiritual
10:02
person it looked like a physical person
10:05
but it was a spiritual person at that
10:07
time as he was walking over it looked
10:10
human to me but from this part of my of
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my head this voice came out and I said
10:20
this is him the spiritual
10:23
that brought so much suffering into the
10:27
world and he spoke to me in English how
10:35
his voice sound it was like that of the
10:40
little munchkins and Wizard of Oz mm as
10:47
he was talking his voice was changing
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and as he was changing this - this voice
10:57
in my mind was telling me this is the
10:59
person that caused so much suffering so
11:02
I was aware of who he was so he said to
11:06
me is his hello guy okhla I say hi how
11:10
are you
11:11
it says I was just passing through and I
11:14
decided to stop and make a deal with you
11:17
by then I was very aware of who he was
11:21
and I said I had nothing to do with you
11:24
I said the power of the creator has
11:27
power over you and he was laughing and
11:30
he began nothing and I tried to speak
11:33
but nothing come out of my mouth nothing
11:35
came out and I forced myself and I
11:39
Forrest and I force it and with the
11:41
strong determination I said the power of
11:48
the creator has power over you then my
11:51
words came out but at that time when my
11:56
words came out I was sitting on my bed I
12:00
was in my pajamas and he was already 3
12:04
o'clock in the morning so several hours
12:07
had passed 9 hours had passed nine hours
12:10
nine hours had passed and I had no
12:13
recollection of what happened how from
12:16
my greens and my boots I with my boots
12:18
on and it was already three o'clock in
12:21
the morning and being on my pajamas I
12:24
had no knowledge of those nine hours
12:28
what did i do on those nine hours I
12:29
don't understand very interesting so the
12:33
spiritual
12:36
you know I always had them since the
12:40
time of childhood mmm but they become
12:43
more strong and more strong more
12:46
substantial more substantial sometimes I
12:49
could touch the other spirits or
12:52
sometimes they bump into my body but
12:56
it's a it's always odd they're very real
13:02
to me they're very real yeah very
13:04
interesting fascinating we're saying now
13:07
a few years back you risked your life in
13:09
another way by visiting the Middle East
13:12
in a very conflict ridden area at a time
13:15
of high tensions and you found yourself
13:19
dodging machine-gun bullets in Ramallah
13:22
tell us how you found yourself in that
13:24
situation and how you live to tell about
13:26
it
13:27
I was invited by the universal peace
13:30
Federation to go into this trip we met
13:35
with the mayor of Jerusalem and we met
13:38
with other dignitaries of the people in
13:41
Jerusalem after that we were invited to
13:44
go into the Palestinian territory into
13:48
Gaza and prior to that two weeks prior
13:54
to that I had a dream that I went into
13:58
Israel and then I was shot right on the
14:00
chest Wow
14:01
so when I went into it I had a prayer
14:04
with my wife and my daughter and I
14:06
explained to my wife and my daughter and
14:08
I say you know if if I don't come back
14:11
please understand that what I do is for
14:14
the sake of humanity and I went on onto
14:17
that trip when I was in in Israel the
14:24
trip the dream kept coming over and over
14:26
I keep going forward
14:30
so we by the time we had to go into the
14:33
Palestinian territory the ambassador of
14:36
the US told us don't go into the
14:39
Palestinian if you go you will die i my
14:47
mind was determined
14:48
now whatever is supposed to be supposed
14:52
to be and that's the way native people
14:54
looks at the world every situation that
14:57
we go into if I'm meant to go men to go
15:01
there's a reason for every so reason for
15:03
everything so I went over there and the
15:07
we took their passport and basilar says
15:11
well if you if you get kill when you get
15:16
killed he didn't say if you get kill he
15:18
said when you get kill we want to have a
15:21
telephone number where we can call your
15:23
your people relative relative to lit to
15:27
let him know where you are so I give
15:32
them my passport so we went into into
15:34
the Palestinian territory into Gaza we
15:39
spent a night in Gaza at the following
15:41
day we were asked to go into Ramallah
15:44
and so we went into Ramallah
15:47
we spend the whole day but around that
15:51
part of the world you know at that time
15:54
that we were there around 4:30 that's
15:56
when the Sun is going down so around
15:59
4:30 we were there and I'm walking over
16:05
in front of everybody there was a group
16:08
about probably about 200 people together
16:12
with you yeah there were all ministers
16:14
and some politicians from the u.s. some
16:18
what my column senators from the US so
16:23
I'm a head of them probably about 50
16:26
feet ahead of them 50 or 75 feet ahead
16:29
of everybody so one little kid is coming
16:33
around he's telling me hey hey hey
16:37
boom boom boom and I keep thinking oh
16:39
wow I wonder he's probably telling me
16:42
that around here there's a lot of
16:45
shooting so I keep walking but I could
16:48
tell that all the houses were pushed
16:50
over by bulldozers so I wanted to see
16:54
how the houses will look from the other
16:57
section so I started walking I walk
17:00
about 20 feet from where all the houses
17:02
were pushed over then I could hear this
17:06
50 caliber machine gun that went on and
17:09
you could hear that
17:12
you know I turn around to ask everybody
17:15
yeah are those guys shooting at us
17:17
mmm but by the time I turn around
17:20
everybody was gone mmm I was the only
17:23
one standing there even the little boy
17:24
that was with me he was gone so I look
17:29
ahead of me and it was a whole army on
17:32
the other side the border line with
17:34
Egypt hmm so I could see that towers
17:37
with the machine guns and the tanks and
17:39
all the shacks you know with the
17:43
sharpshooters and well and I fell you
17:47
know okay well I guess this is my time
17:50
for my prayer so I opened my hands this
17:53
way and I begin to set my prayer and I'd
17:56
say creator if this is if this is my
18:00
time for me to go for the sake of all
18:03
these people I want it to be your way
18:06
not my way not what I want but what you
18:09
want now I could hear the bullets coming
18:13
but for some reason the bullets keep
18:17
going by the side of my ears Wow even
18:19
now still when I send my prayers I could
18:22
still hear the bullets well it must have
18:24
been about 80 bullets that win because I
18:29
was there in prayer and prayer in prayer
18:33
but somehow the Creator was bringing
18:37
those bullets left and right then I
18:41
could hear this voice I said to me said
18:44
look to your right
18:45
and I look to the right and he says walk
18:49
on the red line mmm and I could see a
18:52
red line maybe about this much off the
18:56
ground and he looked it was like this
18:59
like clear plastic hmm a line like this
19:04
and I begin to walk on the red line Wow
19:07
I was walking still in prayer I was very
19:12
relaxed
19:14
in other words God prepared a path for
19:16
you yes and I was very calm I know that
19:21
if if I if I had gone too fast
19:24
I was shot if I stopped I was shot I
19:29
went on walking very normal and I look
19:33
to the right and when I look to the
19:35
right there was a big telephone pole
19:38
made of a wooden telephone pole and I
19:41
Reverend Jessie Edwards he had a digital
19:45
camera and he pressed the camera and
19:48
when the flash went on the shooting
19:50
change to his camera and I could see all
19:53
the bullets around his camera were like
19:56
he took the camera and he run by then I
20:00
was out of danger hmm
20:02
it was a experience of faith but I begin
20:08
to set up a prayer and I told the
20:11
creator thank you for thank you for
20:15
allowing us to come and not to retreat
20:20
in the sign of danger Wow excellent
20:26
testimony thank you very much for that
20:28
appreciate that
20:29
who is God for the Native American
20:32
people to the Native American people he
20:36
is the true parent of humanity hmm
20:39
that word is used by traditional people
20:44
that encapsulates a lot of things you
20:48
know Europeans came over and they give
20:52
us a word that says savage the savage
20:58
people as we are known to the other
21:01
people Savage according to Webster
21:03
Savage is an untain person a person
21:07
without morals or with untamed untamed
21:10
person that we are on we have no no
21:19
knowledge of how to behave kind of
21:20
uncivilized and civilized to the
21:24
contrary
21:25
you know we are very spiritual people
21:30
always understanding that the Creator
21:34
it's our parent not only the parent of
21:38
native people but the parent of the
21:41
entire humanity you know we have stories
21:45
of the three different bears we have
21:47
stories that says that that the world
21:50
was one and through time the world
21:53
begins separating and leaving humans in
21:57
different parts of Mother Earth you know
22:02
from this perspective the Spirit of the
22:06
creator he is a parent that created all
22:08
things he created the universe he
22:11
created the Sun the moon and the stars
22:13
he created all living creatures and
22:15
everything that ended that it's alive
22:18
speaks to us the stone has a spirit the
22:23
trees the flowers the birds that's how
22:26
we get our songs you know the birds
22:29
Hiba give us our songs - sings of
22:31
healing so the relationship between that
22:35
creator and and humanity as one or what
22:40
happens is that mankind has lost a
22:43
relationship yeah okay very clear now
22:48
what is the native peoples understanding
22:51
about the origin of evil coming to
22:55
understand it brings me back when I
23:00
first met dr. Samuel moon he explained
23:07
to me that that at the very beginning of
23:11
history the first human ancestors had a
23:15
sexual relationship I took it very
23:20
arrogantly I it was very difficult for
23:24
me to digest the thought but when I came
23:29
back the medicine people the old people
23:32
the medicine people told me to whom you
23:36
were arrogant
23:38
and I looked spiritually they perceived
23:41
that you had been arrogant that I here I
23:44
never died and never told them anything
23:46
just they perceived that spiritual they
23:48
could see it right through my spirit
23:49
that I was arrogant hmm so when I looked
23:52
to my left I saw the Creator hmm and I
23:56
saw his angry face at me hmm and he
24:01
played on me like a video machine where
24:06
I could see myself being arrogant hmm -
24:10
dr. moon Wow and I say please forgive me
24:16
American Indians we never bow to any
24:19
human person hmm that's not part of your
24:22
tradition huh out of our ways so when I
24:25
saw father moon again I saw the creator
24:29
and his body went into his body there
24:35
was no doubt in my mind or my heart in
24:38
behalf of the medicine people who this
24:41
man is
24:42
hmm I went there and I did a full bow
24:48
and I say please forgive me for being
24:51
arrogant and not understanding who you
24:53
are mm and I looked at the life of
24:58
society in relationship to men and women
25:04
how is so severe Lee looked that that
25:12
relationship it brings all the mystery
25:15
of humanity through the misuse of
25:18
sexuality misuse that when a person
25:22
enters the sweat lodge your sweat lodge
25:25
is an Indian Territory Church in
25:28
structure such as yours form of church
25:30
it's our form of church okay when a
25:32
person enters and they desecrate that
25:35
place into a sexual relationship or they
25:39
have a sexual relationship in that place
25:40
that place had to be destroyed and he
25:45
has to be moved well you know
25:48
why is it that is so sensitive then I
25:53
begin to understand da develop the
25:57
revelation that father moon had he had
26:02
to be true so when I teach at the kids
26:06
at the reservations I emphasized the
26:10
point very strongly that that the origin
26:13
of evil has to do with the origin of the
26:16
bad medicine comes because of that
26:19
relationship from our original ancestor
26:22
or from our original ancestors and in
26:26
our ways we say that there's many people
26:29
from the north to the south east and
26:31
west everywhere you go there's people
26:34
but there's very few human beings a
26:37
human being is the one that gives of
26:40
himself a human being is the one that
26:42
gives and gives and gives and never ask
26:45
anything in return this kind of human
26:49
being
26:49
I know Reverend moon father moon is this
26:53
kind of being a one with a creator
26:57
well trusting hey I know that you're
27:00
also involved a very interesting project
27:02
to promote peace in the Middle East by
27:05
using peace totem poles please tell us
27:08
about that project they can go to a
27:10
people can go to our website okay you
27:12
know which is www.seannal.com mmm we
27:35
proposed this issue for the sake of the
27:40
unity of the three faiths you know the
27:44
Jewish people the Muslims and the Arabs
27:49
and all the people that the Christians
27:51
and the Christians very important you
27:54
know please Christians don't become Eric
27:56
help out with peace you know like I told
28:00
the mayor of Jerusalem this issue is not
28:03
to bring peace is not only a part of the
28:06
American Indians it's a part of the
28:08
Moslems it's a part of the Jewish people
28:11
it's a part of the Christians every
28:13
faith group every heavy has a
28:15
responsibilities of responsibility you
28:18
know excellent guy Oakland Ichi our time
28:21
is up thank you so much for coming back
28:23
and being our guest here today I look
28:25
forward to having you back again thank
28:27
you very much you've been watching the
28:29
finding moment for creating the culture
28:30
of conscience you can find us on the
28:32
internet at www.pedestrians
28:47
you
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